Comments on: Psychosomatic Symptoms http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/12/26/psychosomatic-symptoms/ Reflections of a Buddhist Physician Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:49:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/12/26/psychosomatic-symptoms/#comment-23323 John Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:11:58 +0000 http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/?p=4365#comment-23323 Where is this objective proof of somatization, because I've never seen any. If I took a "somatizing" patient and claimed invisible aliens are the true cause of the symptoms, and didn't demonstrate my claim in anyway, what would you think of my diagnosis? <blockquote><em><strong>John</strong>: Self-observation provides ample subjective proof: the phenomenon of experiencing "butterflies" in the stomach before speaking, for example, is so stereotypically reproducible in so many people, both appearing and resolving with anxiety so tightly, that we can reliably link the two causally. Alex</em></blockquote> Where is this objective proof of somatization, because I’ve never seen any.

If I took a “somatizing” patient and claimed invisible aliens are the true cause of the symptoms, and didn’t demonstrate my claim in anyway, what would you think of my diagnosis?

John: Self-observation provides ample subjective proof: the phenomenon of experiencing “butterflies” in the stomach before speaking, for example, is so stereotypically reproducible in so many people, both appearing and resolving with anxiety so tightly, that we can reliably link the two causally.

Alex

]]> By: stephen vuotto http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/12/26/psychosomatic-symptoms/#comment-13843 stephen vuotto Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:50:59 +0000 http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/?p=4365#comment-13843 I tend to agree with your post, Alex. I've been experiencing psychosomatic disorders all my life. Whenever a relative or friend had symptoms of whatever disease they might be fighting I seemed to develop the same symptoms; until I found out for sure through medical tests that everything was okay was when the symptoms seemed to disappear. I believe the mind is a powerful tool and can convince you that something is wrong when it really isn't. Thank you, Alex, for your explanation on psychosomatic disorder because I think it will finally clear the road for my so called phantom pains. Steve I tend to agree with your post, Alex. I’ve been experiencing psychosomatic disorders all my life. Whenever a relative or friend had symptoms of whatever disease they might be fighting I seemed to develop the same symptoms; until I found out for sure through medical tests that everything was okay was when the symptoms seemed to disappear. I believe the mind is a powerful tool and can convince you that something is wrong when it really isn’t. Thank you, Alex, for your explanation on psychosomatic disorder because I think it will finally clear the road for my so called phantom pains.

Steve

]]> By: David http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/12/26/psychosomatic-symptoms/#comment-6917 David Fri, 21 May 2010 05:19:27 +0000 http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/?p=4365#comment-6917 HI All, I just want to add a somataform/conversion disorder symptom that is more common than people know, and that is seizures. On December 28th, 2009 I began having very violent seizures and 20 or more a day. My last seizure was more than a week ago, when I finally began chanting for no more seizures rather than being on the fence about having them. Even before this, my seizure count and their intensity had gone down. For months, I have been living with them, and taking part in a clinical trial for psychogenic non-epileptic seizures since the beginning of February. You can find out more from an experience I gave here: http://davidfmartinez.posterous.com/experience-502 When I finally met doctors that knew what was going on—they told me that 30% of patients seen in their epilepsy center in NYC have non-epileptic seizures. That's a large number. The doctor who ran the clinical trial also noted a statistic similar, and also said that psychogenic seizures can show themselves in every way that normal epileptic seizures can—from full grand mal-types, to a single limb shaking. I can tell you from experience that conversion disorders exist and are an incredible journey to heal. In my experience, some doctor's simply don't know how to tread into the multi-faceted arena that a psychosomatic display would require. Just some more info—don't rule out conversion disorders or psychosomatic symptoms. HI All,

I just want to add a somataform/conversion disorder symptom that is more common than people know, and that is seizures. On December 28th, 2009 I began having very violent seizures and 20 or more a day. My last seizure was more than a week ago, when I finally began chanting for no more seizures rather than being on the fence about having them. Even before this, my seizure count and their intensity had gone down. For months, I have been living with them, and taking part in a clinical trial for psychogenic non-epileptic seizures since the beginning of February. You can find out more from an experience I gave here:

http://davidfmartinez.posterous.com/experience-502

When I finally met doctors that knew what was going on—they told me that 30% of patients seen in their epilepsy center in NYC have non-epileptic seizures. That’s a large number. The doctor who ran the clinical trial also noted a statistic similar, and also said that psychogenic seizures can show themselves in every way that normal epileptic seizures can—from full grand mal-types, to a single limb shaking. I can tell you from experience that conversion disorders exist and are an incredible journey to heal.

In my experience, some doctor’s simply don’t know how to tread into the multi-faceted arena that a psychosomatic display would require. Just some more info—don’t rule out conversion disorders or psychosomatic symptoms.

]]> By: Jane http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/12/26/psychosomatic-symptoms/#comment-3695 Jane Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:09:27 +0000 http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/?p=4365#comment-3695 I do think that we've most of us been culturally inoculated not just with the Cartesian dualism to which Lisa refers but also with the notion that there's something illegitimate and even fake about disorders of psychogenic origin—that if that's the cause, you're not really sick. Both doctors and patients have a hard time avoiding that fallacy—certainly as patients, we know that there's something really wrong, and we can have a hard time accepting that a psychosomatic disorder is still something "really wrong." (Elaine Showalter's <em>Hystories</em> is a fascinating book for examining that phenomenon). Funny that we're a little more respectful of "stress-induced," which isn't all that different. It doesn't help that many doctors have, in the past, acted as if "psychosomatic" were a magic word that allowed them to wash their hands of a patient's problem without having to confess that they're stumped. I have an admirable friend who, when told by a doctor that her pain was all in her head, cheerfully and sensibly said "Okay—then let's fix my head." I'm really cheered that your colleague, unlike her doctor, apparently considered that quite a reasonable prospect that was well within medical reach, and I think we'd probably all benefit from so matter-of-factly approaching it. I do think that we’ve most of us been culturally inoculated not just with the Cartesian dualism to which Lisa refers but also with the notion that there’s something illegitimate and even fake about disorders of psychogenic origin—that if that’s the cause, you’re not really sick. Both doctors and patients have a hard time avoiding that fallacy—certainly as patients, we know that there’s something really wrong, and we can have a hard time accepting that a psychosomatic disorder is still something “really wrong.” (Elaine Showalter’s Hystories is a fascinating book for examining that phenomenon). Funny that we’re a little more respectful of “stress-induced,” which isn’t all that different.

It doesn’t help that many doctors have, in the past, acted as if “psychosomatic” were a magic word that allowed them to wash their hands of a patient’s problem without having to confess that they’re stumped. I have an admirable friend who, when told by a doctor that her pain was all in her head, cheerfully and sensibly said “Okay—then let’s fix my head.” I’m really cheered that your colleague, unlike her doctor, apparently considered that quite a reasonable prospect that was well within medical reach, and I think we’d probably all benefit from so matter-of-factly approaching it.

]]> By: ann http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/12/26/psychosomatic-symptoms/#comment-3676 ann Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:37:07 +0000 http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/?p=4365#comment-3676 I appreciate the info in your post, and agree that the mind-body connection is often misunderstood. I'm also glad the clonazapam helped you. I'm not sure, however, that the symptom relief you experienced "proves" that anxiety was the cause of those symptoms. As other commenters have pointed out, 1) clonazapam is not just an anti-anxiety med; it is also used to treat nausea from other medications, and 2) medication side-effects do not always occur early in treatment; steroids like prednisone are a good example. My own experience with flagyl is that the first 5 or 6 days were ok, and then the killer nausea hit on day 6 or 7. So although I find your post useful and insightful, I question your conclusions about your nausea; this seems like a pretty clear case of flagyl nausea—a well-known side effect. <blockquote><em><strong>Ann</strong>: The infectious disease doctors who were treating me for the clostridium difficile infection thought so too. But, 1) 7 days is more than enough time for the drug levels to have reached steady state in my system, the point by which most side effects (certainly from antibiotics) have already appeared (your point about the long-term affects of prednisone is well taken, but that's a hormone and is really the exception to the rule of most drug side effects) and 2) I already been on flagyl once before for the c.diff (I then relapsed and had to go back on it again) and the first time around I felt no nausea at all. Alex</em></blockquote> Ann: I appreciate the info in your post, and agree that the mind-body connection is often misunderstood. I’m also glad the clonazapam helped you. I’m not sure, however, that the symptom relief you experienced “proves” that anxiety was the cause of those symptoms. As other commenters have pointed out, 1) clonazapam is not just an anti-anxiety med; it is also used to treat nausea from other medications, and 2) medication side-effects do not always occur early in treatment; steroids like prednisone are a good example.

My own experience with flagyl is that the first 5 or 6 days were ok, and then the killer nausea hit on day 6 or 7. So although I find your post useful and insightful, I question your conclusions about your nausea; this seems like a pretty clear case of flagyl nausea—a well-known side effect.

Ann: The infectious disease doctors who were treating me for the clostridium difficile infection thought so too. But, 1) 7 days is more than enough time for the drug levels to have reached steady state in my system, the point by which most side effects (certainly from antibiotics) have already appeared (your point about the long-term affects of prednisone is well taken, but that’s a hormone and is really the exception to the rule of most drug side effects) and 2) I already been on flagyl once before for the c.diff (I then relapsed and had to go back on it again) and the first time around I felt no nausea at all.

Alex

Ann:

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