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	<title>Comments on: What Compassion Is</title>
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	<link>http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/05/17/what-compassion-is/</link>
	<description>Reflections of a Buddhist Physician</description>
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		<title>By: malav</title>
		<link>http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/05/17/what-compassion-is/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator>malav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happinessinthisworld.com/?p=1652#comment-315</guid>
		<description>This goes along with what Wendy above says.  The study you site is in Berlin, Germany.  Its homeless population may be 95% mental but in the US it is closer to 16% which is still quite high when compared to the mentally ill among the non-homeless population.  Many are veterans or people like Wendy who are trying to get by and lose out on jobs to more affluent looking people.  Below is a link to reference the 16% statistic.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:BKEQzs3C3NgJ:www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pdf+us+homeless+mental&amp;cd=8&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Malav&lt;/strong&gt;:  Thank you for the link.  After I read it, I did another search for statistics on the prevalence of mental illness as well as substance abuse among the homeless and found a few links below that show a wide incidence by study and city.  In retrospect, I should have quoted an average rather than just the highest rate I found to provide a more balanced view.

http://www.unh.edu/sociology/media/pdfs-journal2008/Finnerty2EDITED.pdf  (20-25% of the homeless suffer from mental illness)
http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/43/2/150  (50 percent of those who had ever been homeless during the past three years responded positively to at least one mental illness screening question)
http://drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol12N3/Runaway.html  (In a study of 432 homeless youths in Los Angeles, 71 percent had an alcohol or drug abuse disorder or both at the time of the survey)

Alex&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This goes along with what Wendy above says.  The study you site is in Berlin, Germany.  Its homeless population may be 95% mental but in the US it is closer to 16% which is still quite high when compared to the mentally ill among the non-homeless population.  Many are veterans or people like Wendy who are trying to get by and lose out on jobs to more affluent looking people.  Below is a link to reference the 16% statistic.</p>
<p><a href="http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:BKEQzs3C3NgJ:www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pdf+us+homeless+mental&#038;cd=8&#038;hl=en&#038;ct=clnk&#038;gl=us" rel="nofollow">http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:BKEQzs3C3NgJ:www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pdf+us+homeless+mental&#038;cd=8&#038;hl=en&#038;ct=clnk&#038;gl=us</a></p>
<blockquote><p><em><strong>Malav</strong>:  Thank you for the link.  After I read it, I did another search for statistics on the prevalence of mental illness as well as substance abuse among the homeless and found a few links below that show a wide incidence by study and city.  In retrospect, I should have quoted an average rather than just the highest rate I found to provide a more balanced view.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.unh.edu/sociology/media/pdfs-journal2008/Finnerty2EDITED.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.unh.edu/sociology/media/pdfs-journal2008/Finnerty2EDITED.pdf</a>  (20-25% of the homeless suffer from mental illness)<br />
<a href="http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/43/2/150" rel="nofollow">http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/43/2/150</a>  (50 percent of those who had ever been homeless during the past three years responded positively to at least one mental illness screening question)<br />
<a href="http://drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol12N3/Runaway.html" rel="nofollow">http://drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol12N3/Runaway.html</a>  (In a study of 432 homeless youths in Los Angeles, 71 percent had an alcohol or drug abuse disorder or both at the time of the survey)</p>
<p>Alex</em></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: carey</title>
		<link>http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/05/17/what-compassion-is/#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 00:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happinessinthisworld.com/?p=1652#comment-251</guid>
		<description>I know that your post is about compassion, but I would like to reframe one part of it in the context of generosity.

Generosity is related to compassion, in that compassion is one major motivation that results in the (often concrete, tangible) manifestation of generosity. Other motivations for generosity, such as fear of what the neighbors think, result in what we might call “false generosity,&quot; whereas compassion results in genuine generosity.

Compassion is always abstract and invisible; generosity can be visible or invisible, abstract or concrete.  Generosity can help other people. Compassion simply reflects one’s internal perspective, and can’t help anyone until it manifests in the action of generosity.

Compassion is like a general who stands outside the fray and watches the violence, feeling bad for the poor suckers who are involved.

Generosity is like the doctor who risks his/her life running onto the battlefield to try to save the lives of the wounded.

Without wanting to offend you, but in an attempt to shed another light on the topic here, your compassion serves nobody but you.

It seems that by labeling the homeless person as a “drug user&quot; your heart permits you to exile her.  What if she wanted to use your money for her morning coffee?  As a doctor, surely you must know that caffeine is a drug.  It makes people feel better.

You label drug addiction a mental disorder, but there are many experts who would not agree with that label. Once again, I have to ask if caffeine addiction is a mental disorder as well, and if so, if caffeine users are not worthy of our financial generosity because they would just buy more coffee.

Your generosity has many strings attached.  That is not true generosity.  You are judging which ways of seeking happiness are acceptable to you, and placing your standards on other people.  If you can’t allow her to spend the money on whatever she believes will relieve her pain or contribute to her happiness, your generosity is very limited.  You have insufficient trust of other living beings.  You do not permit freedom of choice or philosophy.

If someone wants to deal with the suffering of this life by using drugs, that is unacceptable to you, since your philosophy doesn’t agree with drug use. (Though, of course, it does---however, the types of drugs are limited. Tea, chocolate, and even alcohol and nicotine are presumably acceptable drugs to ease the pain of existence, whereas cocaine and heroin are unacceptable…because they are stronger? Does your heart have such limits?)

I think that you just wrote this to assuage the pain of your own conscience due to your inability to be generous with a fellow human being in need.  You were overly judgmental, and decided that she wasn’t worthy of your generosity. Now, you (appropriately) are suffering due to the walls your have built surrounding your inner heart---the walls you construct each time you meet a person in dire need and turn them away, based on your judgments.

Drugs are one way that people try to deal with the suffering of life.  Certain patterns of attitudes, some very negative, are another.  Would you refuse to help a starving person because they often created negative thoughts, and by supporting their food habit, you would be permitting them to continue their negativity?

If you want to see true generosity, look to the sun.  It gives its energy in every direction, regardless of whether someone or something is there to receive it.  The pure love of the sun is what I aspire to.

By the way, you are not the only one who is scared of homeless people.  Many people are deeply afraid that homelessness and poverty (and other types of suffering) will spread like a disease, and “contaminate” their own lives.  Hence, they avoid homeless people “like the plague” (an apt metaphor here).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that your post is about compassion, but I would like to reframe one part of it in the context of generosity.</p>
<p>Generosity is related to compassion, in that compassion is one major motivation that results in the (often concrete, tangible) manifestation of generosity. Other motivations for generosity, such as fear of what the neighbors think, result in what we might call “false generosity,&#8221; whereas compassion results in genuine generosity.</p>
<p>Compassion is always abstract and invisible; generosity can be visible or invisible, abstract or concrete.  Generosity can help other people. Compassion simply reflects one’s internal perspective, and can’t help anyone until it manifests in the action of generosity.</p>
<p>Compassion is like a general who stands outside the fray and watches the violence, feeling bad for the poor suckers who are involved.</p>
<p>Generosity is like the doctor who risks his/her life running onto the battlefield to try to save the lives of the wounded.</p>
<p>Without wanting to offend you, but in an attempt to shed another light on the topic here, your compassion serves nobody but you.</p>
<p>It seems that by labeling the homeless person as a “drug user&#8221; your heart permits you to exile her.  What if she wanted to use your money for her morning coffee?  As a doctor, surely you must know that caffeine is a drug.  It makes people feel better.</p>
<p>You label drug addiction a mental disorder, but there are many experts who would not agree with that label. Once again, I have to ask if caffeine addiction is a mental disorder as well, and if so, if caffeine users are not worthy of our financial generosity because they would just buy more coffee.</p>
<p>Your generosity has many strings attached.  That is not true generosity.  You are judging which ways of seeking happiness are acceptable to you, and placing your standards on other people.  If you can’t allow her to spend the money on whatever she believes will relieve her pain or contribute to her happiness, your generosity is very limited.  You have insufficient trust of other living beings.  You do not permit freedom of choice or philosophy.</p>
<p>If someone wants to deal with the suffering of this life by using drugs, that is unacceptable to you, since your philosophy doesn’t agree with drug use. (Though, of course, it does&#8212;however, the types of drugs are limited. Tea, chocolate, and even alcohol and nicotine are presumably acceptable drugs to ease the pain of existence, whereas cocaine and heroin are unacceptable…because they are stronger? Does your heart have such limits?)</p>
<p>I think that you just wrote this to assuage the pain of your own conscience due to your inability to be generous with a fellow human being in need.  You were overly judgmental, and decided that she wasn’t worthy of your generosity. Now, you (appropriately) are suffering due to the walls your have built surrounding your inner heart&#8212;the walls you construct each time you meet a person in dire need and turn them away, based on your judgments.</p>
<p>Drugs are one way that people try to deal with the suffering of life.  Certain patterns of attitudes, some very negative, are another.  Would you refuse to help a starving person because they often created negative thoughts, and by supporting their food habit, you would be permitting them to continue their negativity?</p>
<p>If you want to see true generosity, look to the sun.  It gives its energy in every direction, regardless of whether someone or something is there to receive it.  The pure love of the sun is what I aspire to.</p>
<p>By the way, you are not the only one who is scared of homeless people.  Many people are deeply afraid that homelessness and poverty (and other types of suffering) will spread like a disease, and “contaminate” their own lives.  Hence, they avoid homeless people “like the plague” (an apt metaphor here).</p>
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		<title>By: jrs</title>
		<link>http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/05/17/what-compassion-is/#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>jrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 20:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happinessinthisworld.com/?p=1652#comment-250</guid>
		<description>What a coincidence. Just this morning I gave $2 to an old woman huddled between her overflowing grocery cart of possessions and the wall of building. She didn&#039;t ask me for it---my heart just went out to her and I felt I had to so something, so I did. After all, what does two bucks mean to me? Even if I will be unemployed come July 1.



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;jrs&lt;/strong&gt;:  I sure don&#039;t have the solution to homelessness but that people like you who are about to become unemployed still find the impulse to try to help others even less fortunate than themselves gives me hope.

Alex&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a coincidence. Just this morning I gave $2 to an old woman huddled between her overflowing grocery cart of possessions and the wall of building. She didn&#8217;t ask me for it&#8212;my heart just went out to her and I felt I had to so something, so I did. After all, what does two bucks mean to me? Even if I will be unemployed come July 1.</p>
<blockquote><p><em><strong>jrs</strong>:  I sure don&#8217;t have the solution to homelessness but that people like you who are about to become unemployed still find the impulse to try to help others even less fortunate than themselves gives me hope.</p>
<p>Alex</em></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: rdp</title>
		<link>http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/05/17/what-compassion-is/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>rdp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 17:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happinessinthisworld.com/?p=1652#comment-249</guid>
		<description>And so frequently do!

I think our disagreement arises out of the definition of compassion.  The standard (OED) meaning is &quot;1. Participation in another&#039;s suffering; fellow-feeling; sympathy.  2. Pity inclining one to show mercy or give aid.  3. Sorrowful emotion, grief.&quot;

Caring about the happiness of another, I don&#039;t believe, relates to this.  Perhaps we could agree on the term &quot;loving,&quot; which at least in one of its senses &quot;manifests itself in concern for the person&#039;s welfare....?&quot;  It&#039;s easier for me, at least, to think of it this way.  I think we must be compassionate to all who suffer and try to cultivate a loving attitude to everyone else---even those who don&#039;t.  But I really struggle to do this in specific instances, where you see the obliviousness taking a toll on people who are already suffering.  Or so it seems to me.....

Grateful, as always, for your caring presence here.



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;rdp&lt;/strong&gt;:  I guess with respect to compassion I&#039;m moving away from the dictionary definition and more towards a philosophical definition.  However, I agree with you about the relevance of the term &quot;loving,&quot; which in fact is what I think compassion is all about (and maybe therefore why it&#039;s so hard to define).  &quot;Concern for the other person&#039;s welfare&quot;---yes, exactly.  I&#039;m just not so sure one needs to suffer themselves in order to feel that for another.  Glad there are people like you out there thinking seriously about these issues and trying to embody good and right action when they can.

Alex&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And so frequently do!</p>
<p>I think our disagreement arises out of the definition of compassion.  The standard (OED) meaning is &#8220;1. Participation in another&#8217;s suffering; fellow-feeling; sympathy.  2. Pity inclining one to show mercy or give aid.  3. Sorrowful emotion, grief.&#8221;</p>
<p>Caring about the happiness of another, I don&#8217;t believe, relates to this.  Perhaps we could agree on the term &#8220;loving,&#8221; which at least in one of its senses &#8220;manifests itself in concern for the person&#8217;s welfare&#8230;.?&#8221;  It&#8217;s easier for me, at least, to think of it this way.  I think we must be compassionate to all who suffer and try to cultivate a loving attitude to everyone else&#8212;even those who don&#8217;t.  But I really struggle to do this in specific instances, where you see the obliviousness taking a toll on people who are already suffering.  Or so it seems to me&#8230;..</p>
<p>Grateful, as always, for your caring presence here.</p>
<blockquote><p><em><strong>rdp</strong>:  I guess with respect to compassion I&#8217;m moving away from the dictionary definition and more towards a philosophical definition.  However, I agree with you about the relevance of the term &#8220;loving,&#8221; which in fact is what I think compassion is all about (and maybe therefore why it&#8217;s so hard to define).  &#8220;Concern for the other person&#8217;s welfare&#8221;&#8212;yes, exactly.  I&#8217;m just not so sure one needs to suffer themselves in order to feel that for another.  Glad there are people like you out there thinking seriously about these issues and trying to embody good and right action when they can.</p>
<p>Alex</em></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: rdp</title>
		<link>http://www.happinessinthisworld.com/2009/05/17/what-compassion-is/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>rdp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 16:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happinessinthisworld.com/?p=1652#comment-248</guid>
		<description>I am coming very late to this conversation, and perhaps my questions aren&#039;t pertinent to the particular issue you try to grapple with here, Alex.  Still, I&#039;m offering the following:

I may be too much of a literalist, but, to me, compassion means suffering with. I don&#039;t think it has much---if anything---to do with caring for the happiness of another.  Rather, it&#039;s about that moment of recognition in which you see yourself in the other person (or vice versa).  It is almost impossible for me to avoid this reaction with people who are less fortunate than I am because, like &quot;mar,&quot; I feel in my gut that &quot;happenstance is the only difference between us---our means, and that is transient.&quot;  It has taken me many years to be brave enough to do what mar does, but it does feel like exactly the right thing.  I do not give cash, but ask what is needed.  It is a very, very small thing, but I have never felt as if I showed my daughter something as important as when I engaged with a panhandler this way.  Of course, one must assess the situation and risk, but to try to respond with humanity seems, to me, the real challenge.  If you met a former neighbor homeless on the street, wouldn&#039;t you ask what s/he needed?  Even if s/he were a drug addict?  And all of these people were once someone&#039;s neighbor, someone&#039;s child.

What troubles me more---and more frequently, usually daily :^\---is how to cultivate compassion for privileged people who remain oblivious to the consequences their self-centeredness visits upon others.  While I can, in theory, view them as spiritually impoverished, they do so much more damage to the common good than do panhandlers, I end up feeling that &quot;compassion&quot; for them is misplaced.  How on earth can you offer compassion to someone who regards him/herself as superior and who feels no discomfort on account of being oblivious?  Is the answer simply to ignore them until they become aware of their own suffering?



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;rdp&lt;/strong&gt;:  Reasonable people can of course disagree.  As I wrote in the post, what you define as compassion I would define as empathy, which absolutely often accompanies compassion (and perhaps is a necessary pre-condition), but perhaps my response to your last question about the privileged will delineate the distinction best:  I can have compassion (that is, care about the happiness of the privileged) because their self-centeredness is, in my view, merely the result of a different set of delusions that brings a homeless person to homelessness.  People of privilege aren&#039;t necessarily happier than anyone else---and often are quite a bit less so.  In my view, EVERYONE regardless of station in life is deserving of compassion, deserves to be happy, and deserves our empathy.  Certainly harder to muster for people who seem to be only concerned with themselves, but if you accept my notion that anyone can suffer regardless of life station, why should we have empathy and compassion (as I define them) only for people who meet certain requirements (eg-exclude those who are selfish)?  Even selfish people &quot;were once (perhaps your) neighbor and were once someone&#039;s child.&quot;  Thanks as always for such thought-provoking comments.

Alex&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am coming very late to this conversation, and perhaps my questions aren&#8217;t pertinent to the particular issue you try to grapple with here, Alex.  Still, I&#8217;m offering the following:</p>
<p>I may be too much of a literalist, but, to me, compassion means suffering with. I don&#8217;t think it has much&#8212;if anything&#8212;to do with caring for the happiness of another.  Rather, it&#8217;s about that moment of recognition in which you see yourself in the other person (or vice versa).  It is almost impossible for me to avoid this reaction with people who are less fortunate than I am because, like &#8220;mar,&#8221; I feel in my gut that &#8220;happenstance is the only difference between us&#8212;our means, and that is transient.&#8221;  It has taken me many years to be brave enough to do what mar does, but it does feel like exactly the right thing.  I do not give cash, but ask what is needed.  It is a very, very small thing, but I have never felt as if I showed my daughter something as important as when I engaged with a panhandler this way.  Of course, one must assess the situation and risk, but to try to respond with humanity seems, to me, the real challenge.  If you met a former neighbor homeless on the street, wouldn&#8217;t you ask what s/he needed?  Even if s/he were a drug addict?  And all of these people were once someone&#8217;s neighbor, someone&#8217;s child.</p>
<p>What troubles me more&#8212;and more frequently, usually daily :^\&#8212;is how to cultivate compassion for privileged people who remain oblivious to the consequences their self-centeredness visits upon others.  While I can, in theory, view them as spiritually impoverished, they do so much more damage to the common good than do panhandlers, I end up feeling that &#8220;compassion&#8221; for them is misplaced.  How on earth can you offer compassion to someone who regards him/herself as superior and who feels no discomfort on account of being oblivious?  Is the answer simply to ignore them until they become aware of their own suffering?</p>
<blockquote><p><em><strong>rdp</strong>:  Reasonable people can of course disagree.  As I wrote in the post, what you define as compassion I would define as empathy, which absolutely often accompanies compassion (and perhaps is a necessary pre-condition), but perhaps my response to your last question about the privileged will delineate the distinction best:  I can have compassion (that is, care about the happiness of the privileged) because their self-centeredness is, in my view, merely the result of a different set of delusions that brings a homeless person to homelessness.  People of privilege aren&#8217;t necessarily happier than anyone else&#8212;and often are quite a bit less so.  In my view, EVERYONE regardless of station in life is deserving of compassion, deserves to be happy, and deserves our empathy.  Certainly harder to muster for people who seem to be only concerned with themselves, but if you accept my notion that anyone can suffer regardless of life station, why should we have empathy and compassion (as I define them) only for people who meet certain requirements (eg-exclude those who are selfish)?  Even selfish people &#8220;were once (perhaps your) neighbor and were once someone&#8217;s child.&#8221;  Thanks as always for such thought-provoking comments.</p>
<p>Alex</em></p></blockquote>
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